Comments on: Update on FedEx Plane Crash in Lubbock, TX Weather Related? http://daviddrummond.com/blog/2009/02/04/update-on-fedex-plane-crash-in-lubbock-tx-weather-related/ Storm Chasing Adventures with David Drummond Tue, 17 Jan 2012 03:58:44 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1 By: hayden aircraft accident | Air Blog http://daviddrummond.com/blog/2009/02/04/update-on-fedex-plane-crash-in-lubbock-tx-weather-related/comment-page-1/#comment-2455 hayden aircraft accident | Air Blog Thu, 28 Apr 2011 02:05:20 +0000 http://daviddrummond.com/blog/?p=471#comment-2455 [...] Update on FedEx Plane Crash in Lubbock, TX Weather Related? Feb 6, 2009… Federal Express Corporation, Memphis, Tennessee, and operated by Empire Airlines, Hayden, Idaho. … 5 Comments to ???Update on FedEx Plane Crash in Lubbock, TX Weather Related???? … [...] [...] Update on FedEx Plane Crash in Lubbock, TX Weather Related? Feb 6, 2009… Federal Express Corporation, Memphis, Tennessee, and operated by Empire Airlines, Hayden, Idaho. … 5 Comments to ???Update on FedEx Plane Crash in Lubbock, TX Weather Related???? … [...]

]]> By: atr lubbock | CHASD http://daviddrummond.com/blog/2009/02/04/update-on-fedex-plane-crash-in-lubbock-tx-weather-related/comment-page-1/#comment-2454 atr lubbock | CHASD Thu, 21 Apr 2011 23:31:54 +0000 http://daviddrummond.com/blog/?p=471#comment-2454 [...] Update on FedEx Plane Crash in Lubbock, TX Weather Related? Feb 6, 2009 … Accident occurred Tuesday, January 27, 2009 in Lubbock, TX Aircraft: AEROSPATIALE ALENIA ATR 42-320, … [...] [...] Update on FedEx Plane Crash in Lubbock, TX Weather Related? Feb 6, 2009 … Accident occurred Tuesday, January 27, 2009 in Lubbock, TX Aircraft: AEROSPATIALE ALENIA ATR 42-320, … [...]

]]> By: whirlybird http://daviddrummond.com/blog/2009/02/04/update-on-fedex-plane-crash-in-lubbock-tx-weather-related/comment-page-1/#comment-2104 whirlybird Mon, 09 Feb 2009 01:56:12 +0000 http://daviddrummond.com/blog/?p=471#comment-2104 Brace yourselves for a shock. It's been known since the 90's that this kind of aircraft can't handle ice anywhere near as well as most other aircraft. Does anyone remember how miserable, difficult, and dangerous the weather was that night? American Airlines stopped flying them up north a long time ago. but Lubbock passengers AND cargo still fly on them. YES - there were token changes made by the French to the machines anti-icing after several crashes, with little value. The French allso tightened up the aircraft manual to limit the machine to all but the *mildest* ice weather. -Otherwise its illegal by the manual. I dont have to tell a storm chaser how fast the weather can change. basically the weather will be found not guilty, awful as it was that night- without regard to the SEVERE incapabilities of the machine. The pilot will be blamed for flying into weather that changed too rapidly to react, and thus was illegal by the book the French wrote to cover their butts. Sad, but likely true. The Goalpoasts were moved and France is known to take VERY draconian protectionist measures to hush-hush the downfalls of their industry, Ethics, reality or the truth be damned. *Disclaimer. I have no inside knowledge of the investigation, but this is a no-brainer to my tiny little mind with a slight degree of aircraft knowledge. Bye now. Brace yourselves for a shock.

It’s been known since the 90′s that this kind of aircraft can’t handle ice anywhere near as well as most other aircraft.
Does anyone remember how miserable, difficult, and dangerous the weather was that night?

American Airlines stopped flying them up north a long time ago.
but Lubbock passengers AND cargo still fly on them.

YES – there were token changes made by the French to the machines
anti-icing after several crashes, with little value.

The French allso tightened up the aircraft manual to limit the machine to all but the *mildest* ice weather. -Otherwise its illegal by the manual.

I dont have to tell a storm chaser how fast the weather can change.

basically the weather will be found not guilty, awful as it was that night- without regard to the SEVERE incapabilities of the machine.

The pilot will be blamed for flying into weather that changed too rapidly to react, and thus was illegal by the book the French wrote to cover their butts.

Sad, but likely true.
The Goalpoasts were moved and France is known to take VERY draconian protectionist measures to hush-hush the downfalls of their industry, Ethics, reality or the truth be damned.

*Disclaimer. I have no inside knowledge of the investigation, but this is a no-brainer to my tiny little mind with a slight degree of aircraft knowledge.
Bye now.

]]> By: Chris Bradley http://daviddrummond.com/blog/2009/02/04/update-on-fedex-plane-crash-in-lubbock-tx-weather-related/comment-page-1/#comment-2102 Chris Bradley Sat, 07 Feb 2009 04:16:52 +0000 http://daviddrummond.com/blog/?p=471#comment-2102 My mistake. I didn't see the earlier weather report. At 0415 a special weather report was issued, meaning one of the weather parameters had changed beyond certain limits. That's more than 20 mins before the accident happened. I don't know if the regulations in the UK are still the same as they were when I worked there, but the CAA (governing body for aviation there) required that a special observation, known as a "crash ob," be performed in the event of an accident involving an aircraft. I wonder if the FAA has the same requirement? My mistake. I didn’t see the earlier weather report. At 0415 a special weather report was issued, meaning one of the weather parameters had changed beyond certain limits. That’s more than 20 mins before the accident happened. I don’t know if the regulations in the UK are still the same as they were when I worked there, but the CAA (governing body for aviation there) required that a special observation, known as a “crash ob,” be performed in the event of an accident involving an aircraft. I wonder if the FAA has the same requirement?

]]> By: David Drummond http://daviddrummond.com/blog/2009/02/04/update-on-fedex-plane-crash-in-lubbock-tx-weather-related/comment-page-1/#comment-2101 David Drummond Fri, 06 Feb 2009 06:06:13 +0000 http://daviddrummond.com/blog/?p=471#comment-2101 I think their must have been a misprint in their release. In my original post I posted the metars with air temp of 18F. There was most definitely freezing drizzel/fog across the entire area. I think their must have been a misprint in their release. In my original post I posted the metars with air temp of 18F. There was most definitely freezing drizzel/fog across the entire area.

]]> By: Chris Bradley http://daviddrummond.com/blog/2009/02/04/update-on-fedex-plane-crash-in-lubbock-tx-weather-related/comment-page-1/#comment-2100 Chris Bradley Fri, 06 Feb 2009 05:56:39 +0000 http://daviddrummond.com/blog/?p=471#comment-2100 Forgot to mention: QNH is the one used for altimeter settings (same disclaimer applies!). Forgot to mention: QNH is the one used for altimeter settings (same disclaimer applies!).

]]> By: Chris Bradley http://daviddrummond.com/blog/2009/02/04/update-on-fedex-plane-crash-in-lubbock-tx-weather-related/comment-page-1/#comment-2099 Chris Bradley Fri, 06 Feb 2009 05:54:44 +0000 http://daviddrummond.com/blog/?p=471#comment-2099 Couple of points about the weather report at the time of the accident: • The aircraft was landing with a considerable tail wind. • The reported dew point is 2 deg F higher than the air temp - not possible even if the air is saturated (100% rel humidity) • The reported weather is freezing drizzle. For this to occur the ground temp (and, ideally, the air temp) has to be below 32 deg F (0 deg C), which isn't likely if the air temp is 46 deg F (8 deg C). •The 0430 transcript mentions the wind change at 5,000 ft msl. The airfield altitude is about 3200 ft so why didn't the pilot ask the controller for a surface wind reading? • Aviation uses 3 different pressure readings, QFE (airfield level), QFF (QFE corrected to sea level) and QNH (also QFE corrected to sea level, but using a constant atmosphere rather than the current conditions). Could there have been a miscommunication between ground and air crew about this? I hope the pilots make a full recovery from the injuries they sustained. Disclaimer: I'm going from memory about the pressures - it's 26 years since I worked at Heathrow airport. Couple of points about the weather report at the time of the accident:
• The aircraft was landing with a considerable tail wind.
• The reported dew point is 2 deg F higher than the air temp – not possible even
if the air is saturated (100% rel humidity)
• The reported weather is freezing drizzle. For this to occur the ground temp
(and, ideally, the air temp) has to be below 32 deg F (0 deg C), which isn’t likely
if the air temp is 46 deg F (8 deg C).
•The 0430 transcript mentions the wind change at 5,000 ft msl. The airfield altitude is about 3200 ft so why didn’t the pilot ask the controller for a surface wind reading?
• Aviation uses 3 different pressure readings, QFE (airfield level), QFF (QFE corrected to sea level) and QNH (also QFE corrected to sea level, but using a constant atmosphere rather than the current conditions). Could there have been a miscommunication between ground and air crew about this?

I hope the pilots make a full recovery from the injuries they sustained.

Disclaimer: I’m going from memory about the pressures – it’s 26 years since I worked at Heathrow airport.

]]>